tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5693617853908508572.post6867494781993442057..comments2023-10-22T06:42:51.797-04:00Comments on Students of Jesus: Monday's Meditation: Trapped Eternally in HeavenRay Hollenbachhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08035600094853593399noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5693617853908508572.post-79914238481001371132011-07-05T21:15:54.288-04:002011-07-05T21:15:54.288-04:00Thanks for sharing this Ray! I used to have the sa...Thanks for sharing this Ray! I used to have the same thoughts about heaven/eternal life and then He started showing me that it's about living abundantly through him- then I read John 17:3 and almost fell over! It was exactly what He had been teaching me, but write there in His own words! I love the thought that life now is where we are learning to enjoy REAL life through Him- we don't have to wait til this body is gone!Stephanie Crabtreenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5693617853908508572.post-27501175331361833872011-07-05T21:15:52.870-04:002011-07-05T21:15:52.870-04:00You've asked a critical question, and one I st...You've asked a critical question, and one I struggled with for a long time. Like you, the thought of being an eternal saint whose only function is singing the praise of another does not sound appealing. The options of "praise me forever or be tortured forever" do not seem like the options a loving father gives his children. As you say, a beautiful part our earthly life is getting to know our parents, but it is so we can grow to replace our parents when it is our time. And part of that cycle of love is when our children spend their lives getting to know us. The most beautiful parts of our lives are these cycles. But your image of heaven still lacks this; it is purely linear, ever closer to one point (God), but never reaching it and never seeking anything new. No challenge and no accomplishment. Even a poor, mortal father as myself would never wish such a thing on my children. How can we believe this is the plan of an all-loving God?pantheophanyhttp://pantheophany.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5693617853908508572.post-20560597417154688372010-04-08T08:10:59.765-04:002010-04-08T08:10:59.765-04:00First of all, thanks for visiting the Students of ...First of all, thanks for visiting the Students of Jesus blog, pantheophany. You raise so many points it would be difficult to address them all, but I'd like to offer two comments. First, God evokes worship because he really is "holy," which means "completely different from all of creation." He does not so much demand worship as urges it because it really is the best thing for us. Worship is for our good. My point in leading with the bit about being bored in Heaven was to illustrate how fallen I am, not how "bad" heaven is. Sadly, the North American church has obscured the Biblical picture of heaven. Heaven is connected to his presence--which should lead us to ask, "Do I love His presence?"<br /><br />Lastly, Your comparison to parenting is instructive, as the scripture uses a parent metaphor consistently. But I'm not sure I'm on board with the point about "growing to replace our parents." Is that really the goal of parenting--or growing up?Ray Hollenbachhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08035600094853593399noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5693617853908508572.post-25664167345226695512010-04-07T23:41:03.332-04:002010-04-07T23:41:03.332-04:00You've asked a critical question, and one I st...You've asked a critical question, and one I struggled with for a long time. Like you, the thought of being an eternal saint whose only function is singing the praise of another does not sound appealing. The options of "praise me forever or be tortured forever" do not seem like the options a loving father gives his children. As you say, a beautiful part our earthly life is getting to know our parents, but it is so we can grow to replace our parents when it is our time. And part of that cycle of love is when our children spend their lives getting to know us. The most beautiful parts of our lives are these cycles. But your image of heaven still lacks this; it is purely linear, ever closer to one point (God), but never reaching it and never seeking anything new. No challenge and no accomplishment. Even a poor, mortal father as myself would never wish such a thing on my children. How can we believe this is the plan of an all-loving God?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5693617853908508572.post-2517282457203178592010-03-30T22:50:10.723-04:002010-03-30T22:50:10.723-04:00You're so right. I think we can, through lovi...You're so right. I think we can, through loving and living in the presence of our Lord. The kingdom is here and now, and the kingdom is after we pass from this life. I for one am super-excited that I get to see both kingdoms. I get to spend the rest of my earthly life seeing the seeds of Jesus' kingdom growing all around me, and spending time with him and learning more about him. That is like paradise. Then in the next life I get the Paradise that I only glimpsed here in this life--more living, more loving, more being with him.<br /><br />I have such respect for you, Ray!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5693617853908508572.post-14140377232411830792010-03-29T23:09:17.283-04:002010-03-29T23:09:17.283-04:00Stephanie: it's my pleasure, and you are so ri...Stephanie: it's my pleasure, and you are so right about John 17:3. We could spend a long time meditating on it.<br /><br />Wist: Paradise is indeed a good word. They were both on the cross, facing death in a few hours, so I'm sure Jesus was referring to the after-life, but what if the Scripture is also hinting that we can experience Paradise (to some degree) now?Ray Hollenbachhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08035600094853593399noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5693617853908508572.post-80600501118161534862010-03-29T22:24:17.073-04:002010-03-29T22:24:17.073-04:00I used to be afraid of heaven too, afraid of being...I used to be afraid of heaven too, afraid of being bored, afraid of the concept of eternity (living FOREVER?!?) in general. One verse that helped me was hearing Jesus say, "Today you will be with me in paradise." Paradise sounds nice.<br /><br />You post spoke directly to me, exactly to where I am in my walk right now. Thank you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5693617853908508572.post-800553357928300832010-03-29T21:58:49.125-04:002010-03-29T21:58:49.125-04:00Thanks for sharing this Ray! I used to have the sa...Thanks for sharing this Ray! I used to have the same thoughts about heaven/eternal life and then He started showing me that it's about living abundantly through him- then I read John 17:3 and almost fell over! It was exactly what He had been teaching me, but write there in His own words! I love the thought that life now is where we are learning to enjoy REAL life through Him- we don't have to wait til this body is gone!Stephanie Crabtreenoreply@blogger.com